Current Mood:
Happy
One of my nurse co-workers is going to India and Nepal in October for two weeks, on a medical missionary trip. I’m so jealous I could just spit my teeth out.
As I typed that I had to laugh at myself - yes, I really am jealous of someone who will be living in a tin hut, freezing her patootie off, and working 12 - 16 hours a day during her vacation. And paying $2,500 to do it, too!
It seems that there is a common misconception amongst (some) pagans that All Christians Are Alike, All Christians Are Judgemental Assholes, that they really aren’t sincere in their beliefs, are sheeplike in their mentality, the list goes on and on. I guess if Christians are pigeonholed and stereotyped, it’s just easier to maintain a prejudice against them. Works with any group of people, I guess.
It’s always amusing when those stereotypes get blown out of the water and people have to face the truth: that well, yes, SOME Christians actually DO live their beliefs, we AREN’T just all mindless followers, and that in fact - we actually, really do acts of kindness. Such was the case recently, when a pagan friend of mine on LiveJournal recounted accidently witnessing a Christian co-worker giving his lunch away to a homeless person, and how that affected him.
I gotta tell you folks - Christians do that sort of thing ALL THE TIME. We just don’t go around making it public; to do so would be to lessen the gift of charity. It would be pridefull to brag about being charitable.
And really and truly? It’s one of the many things that brought me back home to Christianity.
Lemme give you a couple of “for instances.”
We used to have our monthly pagan picnics in a local park, where homeless people lived. I always made sure that I brought lots of fried chicken, so I’d have enough left over to give to the small homeless group sitting one pavilion over, who didn’t have anything for lunch. I just couldn’t see eating all that food, without giving some to someone who was hungry. I was the only one out of the pagan group who did that, though; and yes, I noticed.
There was also the time that Michael and I went to see Jim Towey, who was the Bush Administration’s head of the Faith-Based Initiatives program. He came to FSU, and spoke to the Catholic Student Union there. Talk about feeling like miniorities! Here we were, two pagans in a room PACKED FULL of Catholics, who were talking about their charitable works. And one point during his talk, he said: “Now I’ve been asked if the monies available for these programs are available to all religions, or if they can be used by pagans as well. The answer is, yes, they can be, but to be honest, there aren’t too many Satanists running soup kitchens.” Michael and I both cringed inside. Despite the fact that he had confused Satanists with pagans, we also knew - he was right. There aren’t too many pagans running soup kitchens, either.
That’s not to say, that pagans aren’t doing anything charity-wise. They certainly are, and a few years later, Michael and I both were acting as Prision Ministers to pagans, in the local faith-and character based prison here in Florida. Especially it seems, pagans are fond of ecological programs, I’ve seen beach clean-ups, etc. And yes, all that is important.
But charity and acts of giving, don’t really seem to be the main focus of most pagans; heck, it doesn’t even show up on the radar for some of them. They’re so concerned with their own spiritual development that they don’t look outside themselves to see their fellow human beings suffering.
I’ll tell you what I’ve learned.
I’ve learned that you don’t get “spiritually enlightened” - unless you’re helping others.
Forget being witty, forget being rich, you know what impresses me the MOST when I meet someone? Whether or not, he is kind. That impresses the heck out of me - it’s such a rarity.
I hate to say it, but I see far more kindness in Christians, heck even in Islamics and Hindus - than I do Pagans.
In case you were wondering, I do practice what I preach. At the risk of being prideful, I’ll tell you a bit about the charity that I do. I tithe when I go to Church. I’ll slip someone a twenty, if I know they’re going through a hard time. Since my dad was a vet, our soldiers are particularly near and dear to my heart - so I participate in Operation Paperback and Adopt a U.S. Soldier. While I no longer go to the prison, I might start that back up again, once I become a card-carrying Catholic.
And next year, I want to go sleep in a tin hut in India, freezing my bone weary patootie off, too.
Amen, sistah.
This is one of the things that irks the crap out of me about the Pagans– I understand being cynical, and I respect one of my friends for her choice to help animals over people because she’s been hurt too many times by people. But *ME* personally, I’d rather help a person than help an animal. Which is why I support the local Knights of Columbus. Hey, the pagans don’t do it and the Christians, do.
I think being hurt by people is an ideal reason -to help other people; not only does it help heal the hurt one has, but it helps heal the hurt others have. After all - it’s very easy to think, when you’re in need - that no one cares.
But helping animals is better than nothing, which face it - is basically what most people do.
And that would be most people, not just “most pagans.”
Being a decent human being is not something any religion has wrapped up in a neat little package - neither is being a jerk.
Ive run into people of all faiths and none who would qualify as “saints” and people of all faiths and none who would qualify as major jerks
Agreed.
we-ell, got to give pagans a little slack. i mean, catholicism for one has a 2000-year unbroken record of living history and a real penchant for massive institutional organization…
oh, I know. But you don’t need an organization to donate your lunch
But charity and acts of giving, don’t really seem to be the main focus of most pagans
I’m a little surprised to see you say this. MANY pagans give a great deal of both time and money - the difference is that they dont do it as an organized pagan event, like some Christian organizations do.
The group I work with out here has recently implemented a food drive. We’re a small group, so we aren’t organizing a big city wide drive, rather adding our own donations to a larger group. This is the first time we’ve done this under the group name or *as* a group - till now we’ve all handled our charitable donations as individuals.
In fact, they have no idea how much I give or to who every month. I give as an individual *human being* not as a member of a particular religious group. I think the two aspects are completely unrelated. I don’t give because I’m pagan - my Christian friend doesnt make his donations because he’s Christian. We both do it because we’re decent human beings who feel an obligation to give back a little.
I didn’t say pagans, don’t. I said charity and acts of giving doesn’t really seem to be the main focus of most pagans. And it’s not. Pagan religions are more inwardly focused, as in personal development, journying, etc; it’s not outwardly focused, as Christian religions are. Charity is practically (well, not even practically - is) mandated by Christianity.
I didn’t say pagans, don’t. I said charity and acts of giving doesn’t really seem to be the main focus of most pagans. And it’s not. Pagan religions are more inwardly focused, as in personal development, journying, etc; it’s not outwardly focused, as Christian religions are. Charity is practically (well, not even practically - is) mandated by Christianity.
I guess I dont feel comfortable with anyone speaking for “most pagans” or “most Christians.”
I’d say the pagans I know are no more or no less likely to focus their energy on charities than are the Christians I know. But I do know you ran into a lot of discomfort with the pagan community where you are so maybe it’s a regional thing. The pagans I know offline are almost without exception confirmed environmentalists who also spend a good deal of time, energy and money on charitable pursuits. I’d even say, percentage wise, those I know who would label themselves Christian are *less* likely than those I know who label themselves pagan (which of course could also come from the fact that a lot of people are “nominally Christian” - they were raised that way, but arent terribly religious, while most of the pagans I know personally made a conscious choice to seek out paganism and are quite committed to their spiritual path, which includes changing the world for the better just as it does for most committed Christians)
maybe it is a regional thing.
why is it you think that pagans are more likely to choose environmental type charities, than “people” ones?
I don’t think that. I said “The pagans I know offline are almost without exception confirmed environmentalists who also spend a good deal of time, energy and money on charitable pursuits.”
Meaning both, not environmentalism *over* other charitable pursuits - if I was not clear I apologize.
Many of the pagans I know are confirmed environmentalists (much more than I am, admittedly I’m environmentally somewhat lazy) for two reasons. One is because they feel a deep connection to the planet we all share, and the other is because they care about the people yet to come who will have to live with the impact of how the previous generations did or did not take care of the environment.
There’s also been a lot of talk even in the Christian evangelical movement over the last few years about the idea of proper stewardship of the earth, and I’d assume that also comes from a desire not to screw up the planet totally for the generations to come, along with a respect for what they view as the creation of their deity.
maybe the question is should a religion overtly and directly drive charitable acts? people may or may not actually do it, but ought their religion to encourage it actively?
maybe the question is should a religion overtly and directly drive charitable acts? people may or may not actually do it, but ought their religion to encourage it actively?
I think there’s a difference between encouraging people to charitable acts, and “coordinating” them *as* a religion. It feels like advertising to me when Religion X does its charitable work *as* Religion X rather than as individual people. Some religion believe that advertising themselves is part and parcel of their faith. I don’t feel that way about my faith. In fact, I mentioned upthread that a group I’m involved with here is going to do a food drive *as* a pagan group. I’m actually a bit uncomfortable with that idea. Not the donation, the part about making it as a religious group.
As I noted earlier I give/do what I give/do because Im a decent human being and not because of my religion. I think there’s decent people in all religions and no religion.
I wouldnt necessarily consider myself a modest or egoless person, but just as I dont take a tax deduction for my charitable contributions because I feel it would..I dunno..make it less in my own eyes, I feel that saying “I’m a pagan and I give to Organization Y! Pagans are giving, charitable people, they really care about others!” would cheapen the contribution by using it to promote my religion.
I see a lot of people saying “Pagans arent really caring, they dont run hospitals or food banks” but I think thats baloney. Paganism isnt as organized or funded as a lot of faiths, and hasn’t as a whole (and of course, there is no pagans-as-a-whole to begin with)organized to do charity in its name. That doesnt say *jack* about the people who subscribe to paganism, or what they do with their time and money, or by percentage how much of their time and income they donate. My own off the cuff guess would be that it would be about the same percentage as most people. That there’s no massively funded wealthy well organized religious body behind them says nothing about their individual contributions.
Atheists dont tend to take the same rap on this that pagans do - not that they dont get plenty of knocks for being atheists - just not this “atheists are selfish and dont contribute to charities, we know that because there’s no Atheist Food Banks and Hospitals” rap out there like there is against pagans. Somehow even those who object strenuously to atheism seem to understand that atheists can indeed care about other human beings, but pagans take a bad knock on this one, and I think its unwarranted.
My whole tact about this (and I guess it got lost, somewhere in translation!) was NOT that there aren’t pagans who do charitable works. As I said in the post - there are.
But I don’t think pagan religions as a whole focus on charitable acts as necessarily a tool for growth, and Christian religions DO. It’s considered as necessary and expected. Christian religions tend to be more outward focused, pagan religions tend to be more inward. There are exceptions of course - cloistered orders, for instance - but even then, in those cloisters, the nuns/monks are praying for humanity - they’re not specifically doing it for themselves.
Maybe that is the difference - I dont see charitable work or donations as a tool for growth, I see them as the basic responsibility of every decent human being who is in a position to do so. To me, just like it would lessen in my own eyes my charity if I took a tax deduction for them, to do something for my own growth is an inherently inward and self focused act.
If those who pray for others are doing it as a tool for growth, then in my book, they arent doing it for others, theyre doing it for their growth - the fact that it benefits others is a side product of that.
I cant speak for “all pagans” of course, any more than you can speak for “all Christians”..but for me anything I do which has a benefit that comes to me is something I’m not doing “out of the goodness of my heart”…it’s something which could rightly be judged as a selfish, rather than a selfless, act.
Oddly I see it the same way as the bible tells Christians to do their good works and piety out of the sight of others - so the benefits really accrue to those theyre helping, not to themselves.
But then Im a cynic who always assumes that both I and everyone else essentially does things only when they have some benefit to the doer. While I may give out of sight, the fact that I make those donations makes me happy and makes me feel like I’m helping someone else…which again means what Im doing has benefit to me, and is therefore not really “charitable” without strings. If it makes me feel good, thats at least part of why Im doing it. If it makes me feel noble, or self sacrificing, then those things play into why I do them.
No one is really “clean” of self interest.
I agree with you in that if someone is doing an act of charity simply for personal growth, they’re doing it for selfish reasons - which is why the Church teaches us to do so in private - as I mentioned in my original post.
Christianity doesn’t teach us to do it for that reason. We’re to do it, because Christ teaches us to do it,and the Church teaches us to do it. Spiritual growth is just a happy by-product of it, from what I’ve witnessed. In fact - from what I’ve witnessed - it’s the only way really TO get there. YMMV, of course.
Recent Posts
Inspiration
Dark Night of the Soul
St. Theresa's Prayer
The Deer's Cry
The Invitation
The Letter
Archives