Christianity doesn’t teach us to do it for that reason. We’re to do it, because Christ teaches us to do it,and the Church teaches us to do it. Spiritual growth is just a happy by-product of it, from what I’ve witnessed. In fact - from what I’ve witnessed - it’s the only way really TO get there. YMMV, of course.

If those who pray for others are doing it as a tool for growth, then in my book, they arent doing it for others, theyre doing it for their growth - the fact that it benefits others is a side product of that.

I cant speak for “all pagans” of course, any more than you can speak for “all Christians”..but for me anything I do which has a benefit that comes to me is something I’m not doing “out of the goodness of my heart”…it’s something which could rightly be judged as a selfish, rather than a selfless, act.

Oddly I see it the same way as the bible tells Christians to do their good works and piety out of the sight of others - so the benefits really accrue to those theyre helping, not to themselves.

But then Im a cynic who always assumes that both I and everyone else essentially does things only when they have some benefit to the doer. While I may give out of sight, the fact that I make those donations makes me happy and makes me feel like I’m helping someone else…which again means what Im doing has benefit to me, and is therefore not really “charitable” without strings. If it makes me feel good, thats at least part of why Im doing it. If it makes me feel noble, or self sacrificing, then those things play into why I do them.

No one is really “clean” of self interest.

But I don’t think pagan religions as a whole focus on charitable acts as necessarily a tool for growth, and Christian religions DO. It’s considered as necessary and expected. Christian religions tend to be more outward focused, pagan religions tend to be more inward. There are exceptions of course - cloistered orders, for instance - but even then, in those cloisters, the nuns/monks are praying for humanity - they’re not specifically doing it for themselves.

I think there’s a difference between encouraging people to charitable acts, and “coordinating” them *as* a religion. It feels like advertising to me when Religion X does its charitable work *as* Religion X rather than as individual people. Some religion believe that advertising themselves is part and parcel of their faith. I don’t feel that way about my faith. In fact, I mentioned upthread that a group I’m involved with here is going to do a food drive *as* a pagan group. I’m actually a bit uncomfortable with that idea. Not the donation, the part about making it as a religious group.

As I noted earlier I give/do what I give/do because Im a decent human being and not because of my religion. I think there’s decent people in all religions and no religion.

I wouldnt necessarily consider myself a modest or egoless person, but just as I dont take a tax deduction for my charitable contributions because I feel it would..I dunno..make it less in my own eyes, I feel that saying “I’m a pagan and I give to Organization Y! Pagans are giving, charitable people, they really care about others!” would cheapen the contribution by using it to promote my religion.

I see a lot of people saying “Pagans arent really caring, they dont run hospitals or food banks” but I think thats baloney. Paganism isnt as organized or funded as a lot of faiths, and hasn’t as a whole (and of course, there is no pagans-as-a-whole to begin with)organized to do charity in its name. That doesnt say *jack* about the people who subscribe to paganism, or what they do with their time and money, or by percentage how much of their time and income they donate. My own off the cuff guess would be that it would be about the same percentage as most people. That there’s no massively funded wealthy well organized religious body behind them says nothing about their individual contributions.

Atheists dont tend to take the same rap on this that pagans do - not that they dont get plenty of knocks for being atheists - just not this “atheists are selfish and dont contribute to charities, we know that because there’s no Atheist Food Banks and Hospitals” rap out there like there is against pagans. Somehow even those who object strenuously to atheism seem to understand that atheists can indeed care about other human beings, but pagans take a bad knock on this one, and I think its unwarranted.

Meaning both, not environmentalism *over* other charitable pursuits - if I was not clear I apologize.

Many of the pagans I know are confirmed environmentalists (much more than I am, admittedly I’m environmentally somewhat lazy) for two reasons. One is because they feel a deep connection to the planet we all share, and the other is because they care about the people yet to come who will have to live with the impact of how the previous generations did or did not take care of the environment.

There’s also been a lot of talk even in the Christian evangelical movement over the last few years about the idea of proper stewardship of the earth, and I’d assume that also comes from a desire not to screw up the planet totally for the generations to come, along with a respect for what they view as the creation of their deity.

why is it you think that pagans are more likely to choose environmental type charities, than “people” ones?

I guess I dont feel comfortable with anyone speaking for “most pagans” or “most Christians.”

I’d say the pagans I know are no more or no less likely to focus their energy on charities than are the Christians I know. But I do know you ran into a lot of discomfort with the pagan community where you are so maybe it’s a regional thing. The pagans I know offline are almost without exception confirmed environmentalists who also spend a good deal of time, energy and money on charitable pursuits. I’d even say, percentage wise, those I know who would label themselves Christian are *less* likely than those I know who label themselves pagan (which of course could also come from the fact that a lot of people are “nominally Christian” - they were raised that way, but arent terribly religious, while most of the pagans I know personally made a conscious choice to seek out paganism and are quite committed to their spiritual path, which includes changing the world for the better just as it does for most committed Christians)

Being a decent human being is not something any religion has wrapped up in a neat little package - neither is being a jerk.

Ive run into people of all faiths and none who would qualify as “saints” and people of all faiths and none who would qualify as major jerks